How to Thrive in Traditional Publishing with Stephanie Carey from Joffe Books

The new digital-first traditional publisher...

It's been awhile since we talked about the differences, pros and cons of traditional versus indie publishing.

As our tagline says, "We believe there's no single right way to produce, publish, or promote your writing, only what works for you!"

Which is why we're excited to have Stephanie Carey on the show. Steph is the Commissioning Editor at Joffe Books, one of the UK's leading independent publishers of commercial fiction, and they’re currently looking to expand further into the American thriller/suspense market.

We met Stephanie at the 20Books to 50K conference in Vegas last November, and really enjoyed our conversations. We always think it’s a good idea to learn about all of the publishing options, and Joffe has been on the cutting edge of the NEW digital-first traditional publishing space. Both indie and traditional authors will learn a lot from this one!

The indie publishing landscape can feel like untamed wilderness, but Stephanie reveals how Joffe provides a collaborative yet hands-on approach, giving authors the reins over editorial decisions and cover art. This blend of control and support could be the nurturing ground needed for authors to flourish long-term.

If pitching publishers is on your horizon, Stephanie has advice on how to query, what to do, and better yet, what NOT to do as you seek a contract.

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Stephanie Carey
Website: https://joffebooks.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/StephMCarey

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:37

Hi everyone and welcome to the Author Wheel podcast. I'm Greta Boris, usa Today bestselling mystery thriller author.

Speaker 2: 0:45

And I'm Megan Haskell, award-winning fantasy adventure author. Together we are the Author Wheel. Today's guest is a new friend we met at the 20 Books Vegas conference last year Joffe Publishing's acquisitions editor, stephanie Carey. It was a nice change of pace from all the indie business guests we've had on recently. We always think it's a good idea to learn about all of the publishing options, and Joffey has been on the cutting edge of the new digital-first traditional publishing space. Both indie and traditional authors will learn a lot from this conversation, so make sure you listen all the way through.

Speaker 1: 1:28

But first, greta, how's your week going? Nice, it's good. I'm just settling back in from vacation, so it was a little bit of a short week. And on the business news, the only thing I have to say is that I did check my KDP dashboard when I got home and it was always nice. I had some really nice days financially. So it was like, oh, I made some money while I was wine tasting. I think I probably spent it almost as fast as I was making it. But hey, you know, it's always nice, it's on vacation, that's what you do, that was good. So, anyway, that's about it for me. What's going on with you?

Speaker 2: 2:04

Well, I have been absolutely swamped with the Last Ascendant Kickstarter this week and it's funny, you know, this is actually the third campaign I've run. You know, when we include our nonfiction campaign, and I always forget how much extra work it is. I feel like I'm all prepped and ready to go, and then I hit the launch button and it's like, oh no, I've got to pivot, I've got to do this, I've got to change that, I've got to fix this and do more images. I've got more need, more graphics, all this stuff. So it ends up being a lot more time, but it's been going okay. And then I'm also getting ready for the LA Times Festival of Books this weekend. So when this actually airs, unfortunately the event will be over, but I'm prepping for it right now and I didn't realize this until just recently, but it's actually the largest literary festival in the country.

Speaker 1: 3:03

Yeah, I did know that I did it once years and years ago and was absolutely gobsmacked at how many people and how many books and how many publishers and everything were there.

Speaker 2: 3:12

Yeah, I think it's going to be kind of crazy. So this is my first time, so it's taking over the USC campus, which will be kind of a fun thing for me because that's my alma mater, but I kind of don't really know what to expect.

Speaker 1: 3:31

So here goes nothing, I guess. Well, it was really really hot the day that I did it, so it'll be nice it won't be so hot. Yeah, this weekend is supposed to be on the cooler side, but at least not rainy either. Yeah, because I think the heat did kind of there wasn't quite as many customers walking by, because it was just like 90s and oh, yeah, yeah, so yeah no, it's supposed to be beautiful this weekend, I think, so I'm excited for it.

Speaker 2: 4:00

I'm sharing a booth with a few other authors, and so it'll be interesting. I'll make some good new connections, if nothing else, and hopefully sell quite a few books along the way.

Speaker 1: 4:10

Well, I will be interested to hear how it goes when you get back.

Speaker 2: 4:14

Yeah, I will be sure to tell you. So that's it for me for this week. So, listeners, please don't forget, make sure you subscribe to the podcast and review it if you love it, and, if you do, please also consider sharing your favorite episode with a writer friend. Word of mouth is how this podcast gets out there. So that's it for now. Let's dive into the interview with Stephanie Carey.

Speaker 2: 4:42

Steph is the commissioning editor at Joffie Books, one of the UK's leading independent publishers of commercial fiction. And guess what guys? They are currently looking to expand further into the American thriller and suspense market. So if you've got a pitch ready, steph's going to be your girl. Poor Steph, she's going to get inundated after this. I know she is Watch out. We actually met Steph at the 20 Books to 50K conference in Vegas last November and had a fabulous dinner. We were just reminiscing about our dinner at this little Mexican restaurant there. It was great and we really enjoyed our conversations, so we decided to invite her on the show today. One of the things that we always talk about a lot is how, at the author wheel, we try to be very agnostic, whether you're indie, self publishing or whether you're, you know, going for that traditional deal or some kind of hybrid thing in the middle. You know it's always good to learn about all the options in every corner of the publishing industry and even across the pond. So welcome, steph. We're so excited to have you here.

Speaker 3: 5:55

Hi, thank you so much for having me on. It's so fun seeing you guys again.

Speaker 1: 5:59

Absolutely yes. We did quite a bit of hanging out and drank occasionally a glass of wine here or there together.

Speaker 2: 6:08

Or two, or possibly three, just the odd glass yeah.

Speaker 3: 6:15

It was so good.

Speaker 1: 6:17

Well, before we dive into our usual questions, tell us all the amazing things that you've been doing since you got back from back home after your jaunt to America.

Speaker 3: 6:29

My jaunt to America was so fun and since I got back home I actually have signed a couple of authors who I met at 20 Books, so I've been able to show off to my boss and say, look, you've got to send me again next year. It's been really good.

Speaker 2: 6:47

That is wonderful yeah it really, really is, especially because I mean that conference is largely focused on self-published or indie authors. I'm actually curious what drove you to attend that conference in particular.

Speaker 3: 7:03

Jockey Books is an independent publisher and it's digital, but we have always learned so much from the indie author space. I think self-published authors are often at the very forefront of the publishing industry. They know exactly what they're doing in terms of trends in terms of genre, in terms of marketing. They know exactly what they're doing in terms of trends in terms of genre, in terms of marketing, um, and when one of our authors was attending another conference, we suddenly started thinking you know, we've got to go to these things, we need to be learning from the creme de la creme, um. And so we thought, well, what's the biggest one? And it's without a doubt.

Speaker 2: 7:36

I think it's 20 books, yeah, and I think the, I think the um, the new version, or author nation, I think they're anticipating or trying to grow it even further. So it's they're really trying to make it the premier event for, you know, indie authors in particular, but you know the the author and publisher space, which is awesome.

Speaker 1: 7:58

We may even be having um, joe Solari, who is the new director, promoter, owner of that conference on the podcast pretty soon.

Speaker 2: 8:07

We're trying to schedule.

Speaker 1: 8:09

I know that should be fun. We are hoping.

Speaker 2: 8:13

So, Steph, why don't you tell us a little bit more about your personal journey into the publishing industry?

Speaker 3: 8:19

Yeah, of course. So it sounds kind of ridiculous to say at this point, but obviously I have always loved reading. It's like yeah, yeah, whatever, um, but I mean that is a great big part of my job, so it's been really. It's been really useful and really nice having to get to a point where I now work with books and I get so much time reading. I actually did French literature at university and I got to go live in Paris for a year and you can either teach or carry on studying.

Speaker 3: 8:57

And I decided to get an internship at Édition La Russe. They do La Russe Gastronomique and all these dictionaries and language learning guides, and I was only there for six months, but I just learned so much. It was so much fun. I was working on these translated editions of English classics and they were kind of marked up, almost like Shakespeare, with little notes in the margins. So if you wanted to read a book in English and your English wasn't amazing but it was okay, but you just couldn't sit through a dictionary like looking back all these words you were able to read those. So that was my first stint in editorial and I just loved it. And then, after I came back and finished my degree I got a couple of different bits of work experience. I think I worked at a lifestyle magazine publisher in the south of England and then also in London on like a pregnancy, childcare, like women's health publisher, which was really fab.

Speaker 1: 9:59

Oh, wow, very cool. And then you landed at Jaffe.

Speaker 3: 10:03

Many moons later. I've actually done a little bit of everything, I think, across the publishing game in England. I've worked on academic monographs on criminology books, which was just absolutely fascinating, and then I worked on some sort of serious non-fiction memoir, autobiography, history, politics. Then I worked on illustrated children's books, which was honestly just a laugh a minute. One of my titles was honestly called uh, magical rainbow unicorn and then I that's hitting all the tropes that is very current right now yeah, oh that's wonderful, so how long have you been with?

Speaker 3: 10:51

Jaffe. Um, I think it's about three and a half years now actually wow yeah so tell us a little bit more about Jaffe in particular.

Speaker 2: 11:00

you, you know you're digital only. Obviously you're based in the UK, but what does that mean as far as how you approach authors and your marketing strategy and that kind of thing?

Speaker 3: 11:12

Yeah. So I mean, I'd say some publishers are digital only and some publishers are sort of digital. First, I would say we're digital mostly. Digital is our absolute primary, but we do generally have a print edition of most books that we publish. We've just started doing these gorgeous full wraparound jackets now as well, but, yeah, the vast majority of the books we sell are in e-book. They're incredibly good value both in the UK and in the States and, yeah, as I say, we've learned so much from self-published authors in terms of all the full gamut of digital marketing.

Speaker 3: 11:49

Our marketing team is incredibly strong. We've actually just hired some more people. We have a social media manager who used to be, I think, one of the biggest booktubers book tubers in the States, wow, yeah. And now she does all of our socials. But yeah, we started off about 10 years ago. Jasper Joppe, our CEO, was publishing his mum's old romance novels and was sort of getting into KDP and you know sort of that really DIY approach, doing everything yourself, and he would do the editing and do that in the covers and write the blurbs and do all of the you know your book book, your Facebook ad, amazon ads, everything and then we started taking on some more authors, and we've got authors like Joy Ellis, faith Martin, helen H Durant, who's been with us from from early in the day, who've just sold amazing, amazing, wow in the in the british crime genre that's great.

Speaker 2: 12:51

So, um, why don't you walk us through a little bit of your day-to-day as an editor at joffey, like what does that? I think most of our listeners or maybe not most, but a lot of our listeners honestly probably have zero idea what an acquisitions editor actually does.

Speaker 3: 13:10

Yeah, so I have the amazing job of being able to look for new authors and work with them on their books. So I might be looking in our submissions book inbox. I try and look, you know, every other day and really sort of keep abreast of what all the you know the new submissions are like. Um, I will be finding new authors. So that means having calls with people and talking to them about their ideas, uh, explaining to them what we do, seeing if they would maybe like to come on board with us, often with a lot of debut or authors who've maybe done a little bit of publishing, either with other companies or, you know, on their own. I'll help them with a sort of really big picture story element. So they'll send me an outline or a synopsis and we'll be looking at it and thinking, you know what? How does this best fit the genre? What is the reader gonna gonna most want from this?

Speaker 3: 14:07

Um, I might be writing blurbs. I might be sending cover briefs to our amazing designers, um, thinking about the whole package you know, the title, the blurb, the cover. Um, thinking about how to sell these books online in this really snappy sort of really plot focused way. So, yeah, a lot of reading, a lot of emails, a lot of talking to lovely authors.

Speaker 2: 14:33

So it sounds to me a little bit like once you find the book that you like or that you want to acquire, you know, you sign the contract with the author and then you're kind of the shepherd for that book, you're guiding it through the whole process within the company. Is that pretty accurate? Yeah?

Speaker 3: 14:49

absolutely. I've never considered myself a shepherd before, but 100% now I have a flock, yeah, yeah, from stage one to the end of publication. And you know thereafter, like checking online, you know, does the blurb look okay on mobile and on desktop? You know how are the reviews coming in, Like checking the chart ratings and yeah, just being an absolute champion for all the lovely writers.

Speaker 1: 15:16

I love that, you know, because I do think that. You know I have one series that's indie and I got to say one of the most difficult things about that is not having somebody who can step back and get a broader, get the overview, the big picture overview of like, where does this book fit in the market? What are the tropes that should be called out and shown on the cover? On the cover, what are the? You know, it's like when you're the author it's hard because you're so, you're so immersed in the details of this story it's hard to stand back and get the big picture. So I love the idea of having a shepherd. That's such a good idea.

Speaker 2: 15:54

Yeah, I love that thank you, feel free to steal it I agree with you.

Speaker 1: 16:03

That's good. So one of the questions that we always ask if people are a writer, we ask them about their own roadblocks, but since you work with, since you're a shepherd with so many in your flock, what do you see is one of the most common roadblocks your writers run into and how do you help them overcome that roadblock?

Speaker 3: 16:38

everything. If you're a self-published author, I mean you guys know this you're the one writing the scripts, you're the one briefing the cover designers or maybe doing the covers yourself. You're writing the book, then doing a full edit, then you've got maybe beta readers and, like outsourced editors, you've got to take in all the corrections you could. I just can't imagine how anybody does it. We have a whole company that does all of it, and so I think for authors who come to us sometimes it can be hard to sort of believe that they don't have to do all of that anymore. I mean, it's great if our authors are on social media or they have an amazing newsletter that they want to keep doing.

Speaker 3: 17:14

But just being able to say like no, you're the writer, you write and we'll take care of everything else, like it's fine, we've got you, you can sort of relax now, I think that's something that people are sort of almost they can't quite believe and they can't quite let themselves settle into, I do think there's something in the indie mindset that often is plug up your ears, megan.

Speaker 1: 17:41

That's a little controlling.

Speaker 2: 17:47

What Me Sometimes? Yes, we have some control freaks.

Speaker 1: 17:51

Yeah, no offense to those listening. I know who are control freaks because Megan and I both are in different ways know who are control freaks, because Megan and I both are in different ways.

Speaker 3: 18:01

So yeah, and you have to be. You absolutely have to be. If it's yeah, if it's your business, if it's your livelihood, if it's your life's passion and you're trying to, you're trying to do it and you're checking every single day, you have to be absolutely a control freak of the entire whole person. But it's really nice to be able to say no, you just do the ideas and the words and leave the rest to us. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:22

Well, I think that's so interesting too, especially from comparing Joffey to what I understand of, like, the big traditional publishers and, to be fair, this is, you know, third-hand information because I've never actually talked to anyone from one of the big traditional houses. So, big traditional houses, if you're listening, feel free to pitch us because we'd love to talk to you. But it's very interesting to me to like see that difference, at least from my understanding of sort of the hands-on ability that Joffey has to work with authors. I mean, we happen to know one of your new contracts, one of your new authors that you've, that you've brought on, and so I know, I've heard some of that process and how you really are a shepherd for these books, whereas I think a lot of indie authors have been told, basically since the advent, advent of Kindle, that if you go traditional you lose all control.

Speaker 2: 19:24

So it's like this black or white, all or nothing. Either you're, you know, involved in the process and and able to, you know, help, guide the cover yourself, or you don't do anything at all. And so I'd like to you know what's kind of your perspective on that. Is that kind of accurate? Are you able to be more hands-on with these authors? Or do you kind of just say you know, it's this, we're going to do the we're going to do all this and you just kind of sit back and over there and do your thing Like how's your perspective on that?

Speaker 2: 19:54

Like from from the I'm going to say mid-sized or small-sized indie publisher.

Speaker 3: 20:02

I'd say it's often pretty tailored in terms of the editorial side of things. We can be as hands-on absolutely as our authors need us to be. I know some people really need to sort of be able to see every single stage, so and also will send me their their first draft and I'll read it and, you know, give them some notes, uh, and then they'll or maybe I'm doing a full structural edit myself, if it's not going out of house to one of our freelancers and then there's a copy of it and then there's a proofread and sort of towards the end stages of the process it's mostly checking that things are in house style and just correcting any tiny little errors. And some authors are more than happy to say look, it's fine. You know, I know it's only the, the last little changes that you're making, and some people really need to see and be able to check and approve everything. So we're happy with as involved or as not involved as authors want to be in terms of that. You know, if they want to see every single stage, fine, great.

Speaker 3: 21:05

I think I would probably be the same. I want to have my eyes on every tiny little track change and then, in terms of the cover lots of self, previously self-published authors. You know they know exactly what they're doing in terms of the designs and where they will sit in the market. So we love to get people's ideas. I guess we would always come at it from this wholesale perspective. We talk to everybody in the team. We've got sales, we've got marketing, we've got publicity, we've got social media. We can sort of look and see, as you, greta, that sort of step back. We can see the really big picture and and come up with a, an amazing identity and cover and title and a whole package idea, um.

Speaker 2: 21:50

But we, you know, we love all this feedback and input and, yeah, we're always, we're always doing things collaboratively, I'd say yeah, that that's great and that's what we've heard, in particular, about Jaffe and because of the way that your company grew, I guess that's always been like the word of mouth, if you will, about the company is that it is you as an author, you are able to be a little bit more hands-on or as hands-on as you actually want to be, and some authors don't want to be, some authors just want to be like you know what you do it.

Speaker 2: 22:23

I have no interest, I just want to write the words, and that's great too. But for those that do want at least a little bit of that type A control, b, just a little.

Speaker 1: 22:37

Just a little control fee, just a little. One of the things I know has been true about the big traditional publishers I'm not sure if it's changing or not, but is you know has been true is that they tend to focus their marketing dollars on new releases and the backlist kind of gets lost in the dust and if a series is not selling super well by, like the second book, it's often tossed or tanked, you know.

Speaker 1: 23:16

I had heard through the grapevine that jaffe was a little bit more like the indie authors and uh, you do look at backlist in a little bit more of the longevity of the series is. Is that true?

Speaker 3: 23:30

uh, that is absolutely true. Um, we like to say uh, there's no such thing as backlist, it's just a book you haven't met yet oh, that's so, it's pretty adorable, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 23:44

because it's new. It's new to any reader who hasn't already read it. We don't really have this kind of tiered hierarchical system of like, oh, this is a super bestseller, they're going to get 90 of the budget, which I think can be the case for some of the lists at bigger publishers. Yeah, we treat every book like it has the potential to be a bestseller and so we keep pushing in all different ways. Maybe it doesn't take off immediately. So we'll think, oh, let's, you know, see if we can submit it for a deal or an award, or we'll play with the pricing structure across the series to get more readers in, really give it away for free for a limited time and get a you know, a whole bunch of new people into the, into the series. We'll, yeah, we'll do. We'll do all sorts of things. It's not really this kind of we're just going to give up and ditch it in the dust.

Speaker 3: 24:40

And some of our best new American books that we've been putting out recently have been, you know, previously published and so, I guess, would have been considered backlist. Anya Mora we republished a bunch of her books and they have taken off enormously well. Not my Baby, my Husband's Wife, I think it's called book and they have taken off enormously well. Uh, not my baby, uh, my, uh, my husband's wife, I think it's called. That was the first one. We did a whole bunch of these really amazing family-oriented domestic psych thrillers I love those kind of books yeah, yeah, we, we love those too, if anyone well.

Speaker 2: 25:18

So one thing I picked up on there that you were just talking about is that you're willing to give books away for free. So you're doing a free promotion which, as I understand it, is not normally a traditional publisher big publisher, you know, publisher, I mean indie authors do it. But I thought that was kind of I don't want to say taboo, but certainly not a common practice, uh, amongst publishers. But you guys do free promotions, you do the like low price, yeah, deals and stuff like that absolutely.

Speaker 3: 25:53

In fact, we um we started a campaign recently called free book friday and across all of our various imprints, usually sort of from the deeper depths of the archives, we will be giving away a book of free. I think it's now three books free away every week.

Speaker 3: 26:11

It's a great way of revitalizing series, especially if an author is bringing out a new series and we want to get some new readers in, get some more people hooked. Yeah, it's a great way. I know authors can sometimes be a bit like ah help, you're giving my hard work away for free, but it's obviously a very limited time and it's a great way of finding a new audience.

Speaker 2: 26:35

Yeah Well, I mean even for myself as a. I'm a wide indie author, so I have my. My debut novel is perma free, like you can download it anywhere at any time for free, with the idea being, of course, that then you hook readers and you get them to read through the backlist, uh, or the rest of the series, or you know my other titles, the other books they haven't met yet.

Speaker 1: 26:57

Yes, the other books they haven't met yet yes, the other books.

Speaker 3: 27:01

Yes, and it earns you a lot of goodwill as well, especially if you're a self-pubbed or you're a smaller. Yeah, you know, people are like that's nice. What else have they got.

Speaker 2: 27:11

Yeah, and it seems, I mean it certainly seems to help attract an audience and then, like I said, hopefully you get that, that read through. So I, I'm, I'm impressed, I guess, that a publisher who is running their business like usually, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 27:27

it just seems like like and indie authors are sometimes like this too. It's like well, I don't want to give it away for free because I worked so hard, and then I'm losing money on those titles. But the the truth is, when you actually look at the data, you end up earning more, so I'm impressed that you guys are willing to do that. That's awesome.

Speaker 3: 27:43

Well, we learned it. We learned it from the books.

Speaker 1: 27:47

Not from me I don't think because I stole it from somebody else.

Speaker 2: 27:51

Yeah, so what other tools or advice would you give to authors who are interested in potentially getting a traditional deal with a with a company like joffy or joffy itself?

Speaker 3: 28:08

I'd say um, one of the best things I would recommend is a really tailored submission email. Um, sometimes you get people saying now I know you don't publish children's fiction, but would you like to publish my children's fiction? And the answer is always going to be no. You know what we do and what we don't do. Um, I think, know your, know your market, know your audience. We'd love to see an author who's like my book is like x, y and z in these really specific ways. You know, like it's a, it's a pacey domestic thriller, or it's like a survival thriller or it's. You know and everyone who knows their competitors, or you know other books that are similar. Um, a clean manuscript. It doesn't have to be like prestigiously, amazingly, you know error-free.

Speaker 3: 29:01

We're probably going to want to do some work on it, but you know a level of care that you've, you know, had a look at it, you've read it over, um, and I think, uh, having an awareness of what the sort of genre is as well, I'd say and know like a really clear idea of being able to sell the sort of core, key plot elements.

Speaker 1: 29:23

That sounds like. If you are uncertain listeners, go check out our course Understanding your Genre, because we go into our book. We have a quick tips guide on that, because it's true, I mean, megan and I have both learned this the hard way, but especially me. I pitched my first manuscript to an agent as a cozy horror, which did not exist at the time, but I thought it was pretty darn clever you know and she didn't exist.

Speaker 1: 29:53

Now I know, but it did not exist, I was ahead ahead of myself, ahead of the industry of myself ahead of the industry, too far ahead of the industry, apparently because, yeah, I got the light years now I should dredge that old book up somewhere and go pitch it again now that cozy horror exists.

Speaker 3: 30:14

But yeah, I'd say that's a really good point. And if you're trying to make it kind of fall between two very, very disparate stools, it's going to be hard to sell if you can't tell readers what it looks like, what it feels like, what it's going to be.

Speaker 1: 30:30

Yeah, it's going to be tricky yeah yeah we have to know yeah, you have to know enough about the story you've written to express it in a very short, like elevator pitch, exactly Because acquisition editors and agents are very busy people and they got stories coming at them left and right and it's, it's the hook right, and my personal tip would be put that in the body of the email.

Speaker 3: 31:01

Don't save it for some special extra cover letter that you've got to download as well. Put all the good stuff in the email. Oh that's interesting, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:11

So I'm actually curious now, how does the submission process work Like? Do you go to the contact page on Joffie and fill out a contact form? Do you send an email? Do you guys even accept attachments, like some of them don't? What's your process so?

Speaker 3: 31:26

we have completely open swabs. We do work with agents and we work with authors. You know, sort of directly, but anyone and everyone can submit a book. It's submissions at joffiebookscom. There's guidelines on our website of what we're looking for, how much to include, what to sort of lay out. But, yes, send an attachment of the book, our Word doc's, easier we can send it to our Kindles and read it on the tube on our way in. If we're commissioning editors and we're short on time. And, yes, tell us straight up in the email. You know, this is an amazing, uh, an amazing domestic suspense and it's, it's like this is in the east and this is the plot and we'd love to. We'd love to hear from you.

Speaker 2: 32:11

What do you say to the advice that, uh, this is not for when you're, when you're approaching agents or editors. It's not a don't don't hide the. What is it? Don't don't uh, don't hide the lead, don't bury the lead, right like you. Just tell what the book is about. You're not trying to keep it secret, you're not trying to have the twists you want them to know. Is that accurate?

Speaker 3: 32:34

yeah, one thing that we always ask for and this. This comes like once we've even signed a deal and we're working with an author and they deliver a manuscript, we say, please, can you write a spoiler-full plot synopsis? You know, we have this on our shared drive and the whole company has access to just a brief resume. What is the story? What's going on here? So, yeah, tell us all the big juicy twists and turns. That's what we like.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Yeah, that's really good. I thought of a question when we were saying this about pitching. So I have heard that you know agents. A lot of the time they want to tell you oh, it's just the book, it's just the book. But do you give preference to, say, an author who has a platform, a person who has a platform over maybe, a debut author who hasn't even got a Facebook page or website? How much do you look at what they've done career-wise, as opposed to just the story itself, like what's the weight?

Speaker 3: 33:40

I'd say it's always exciting if someone's got a really genuinely incredible platform already. But I mean, that's hard and you kind of basically have to be a semi-celebrity to have something like that. So the main thing that matters is the story. If it's got a great hook, we can sell anything. Caleb Stevens it was, I think, his debut novel. It was a thriller, it's called the Girls in the Cabin. I found that in our submissions in books. He had another book out, I think with Timber Press in the autumn and I don't't. You know he'd got collections and he'd got sort of short stories and you know bits and bobs here and there, but this was, I think, his first full-length novel. Um, and that's just got a fantastic hook and we, we could sell that right away without any. You know, you don't need to do all the sort of socials. If you want to, that's great, and if you already have it, great, but it's. But it's always the, it's always the story. Yeah, we'll take. You know, we we're not prejudiced against debuts or or anything like that.

Speaker 1: 34:46

Oh, that's good to hear. I think that is going to encourage. Encourage some people, because I, you know, you hear that they don't want to even look at you if you don't have, you know, 5,000 people like your Facebook page or something.

Speaker 3: 35:03

No, no, I mean again, that's our job. You know, we'll be putting ads on Facebook. We'll be sending it to our mailing list of 100,000 people. You know, we'll do the marketing it's. I'm working with David Wilson as well because, uh, it's that collaboration, that that sort of back and forth of like working on ideas and and looking at a book go from just an idea to a synopsis to a first draft yeah, I'm my favorite.

Speaker 1: 35:31

Yeah, oh, that's exciting.

Speaker 2: 35:33

So another, another kind of quick question uh, off of that too, then. So you said, you know, from an idea to an outline, to a synopsis, to a draft, do you prefer people to come to you with a completed manuscript Especially I mean, we're talking mystery thriller here or thriller suspense, I guess mostly you. But so full manuscript, or pitch an idea, or both, or either I'd say yeah, I'd say I'd say both.

Speaker 3: 36:03

I mean, ideally, we love a man like one. Maybe one book, that's done. And then, if you've got some more ideas, yeah, we'd love to hear and that's one of the first questions I usually ask if you know, if I read a book and I'm like oh, this is really good, it's. You know, have you got anything else in your, in your back pocket, what, what else could we work on together?

Speaker 2: 36:22

Oh, very cool.

Speaker 1: 36:23

And I think that this is a good tip for listeners. If you're gonna, and tell me if you agree with me. Steph, if you're going to pitch a publisher, I think it's a darn good thing to go to the publisher's website and do a little research on the authors that they publish, how those authors are doing. Look at those authors, amazon pages. Look at the sales. Look at how many reviews. Look at the covers. There was when I was pitching publishers back in the in the day. Um, there were a couple of publishers that I did not pitch because I looked at their book covers and they looked so amateurish I was like I don't want to eat with them.

Speaker 1: 37:01

Plus, like you were saying, make your pitch very tailored. If you can see what this publisher is publishing, that is you know. I mean it's like it's respectful too, like you're coming in, like you said. You're not coming in saying, hey, you want to do my children's book? Yeah, and that publisher has no children's books. You want to do my cookbook? I have no cookbooks. Yeah, looking at the kind of book it is, so would you agree that that's a good tip?

Speaker 3: 37:34

Yeah, always, and also gonna be. If it's, if it's gonna be successful, you have to be happy as well. Some authors want to be published, you know, sort of in print, and we do have print editions, but that's not our focus. And if that is your big, big goal, we're not going to be right for you. And I feel like we have to be very upfront with authors and I think, as you say, also should equally do their share of their research and make sure you know this is the kind of publisher for me. You know, if you want, hopefully, to be an Amazon Top 100 bestseller, then we're your people, but if you know if you're looking for something else, then maybe not. And one last thing, actually on email submissions, if I could please give a little plea, no more emails that begin with dear sirs. Oh, yeah, that's right, come on Also. It's crazy, it's editorial and it's publishing. Yeah, there's not that many sirs in any case, yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:38

Well and actually, but that kind of goes back to the same point too. Is that mean? Well, I don't know about Joffey, because it sounds like you have a sort of general submissions um inbox, but when you're reaching out specifically to an agent or editor or anybody like. We've seen this even for the podcast too. It's like somebody will be like dear author wheel, and they don't address it to Megan, they don't address it to Greta, and immediately we address it to Greta, and immediately we know okay, this is this is a someone who doesn't know us, right, yeah, they haven't looked at at who we are, what we're doing, um, especially, yeah, Anyway, we get the same thing.

Speaker 2: 39:11

So I feel your pain, but do that research so that you do. You can make it more personalized, you know that. Or you're showing the person on the other side that you know what you're doing and you're you know who they are and you've, you know, made an effort to actually find somebody who would be interested in what you're offering.

Speaker 1: 39:31

100 yeah I always say that you, I feel like finding an agent or finding an editor, acquisition editor, finding your publisher is kind of like, you know, a dating app. You only need one per series or per whatever. You only need one. You're not going to have, you know. So be choosy and be professional and put your best foot forward. This is an important, important relationship. It's a long, ongoing relationship, you know. So give it the care that it deserves. And so, on that note, could you tell us what are you, steph? What are you looking for? Like what would just make your little acquisition editor?

Speaker 1: 40:19

heart so happy if you got it in your inbox.

Speaker 3: 40:26

um, I am, this is very specific, but hear me out, okay, I would love a domestic suspense thriller on holiday. So it's like it's the last chance to save the marriage, or it's the reunion of the really cliquey high school group and it's in a gorgeous location, you know, like a poolside resort, and the stakes are high because of all of these deep, dark, underlying secret lies, betrayals. But then it's on holiday and you know that sort of hot sun is beating down on you and there's temptation everywhere and everything just yeah, gets dialed up to 11. I mean, that's, that's personally what I'm, but amongst other things, A cozy beach thriller, that's what you want.

Speaker 2: 41:24

A cozy beach thriller, that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 41:26

I love it. If you get that book, would you please send it to me. I will blurb it for that. I'm also making notes because I could write that book. That would be so fun.

Speaker 3: 41:38

Yeah, you could, yeah, yeah, or just, you know, like thrillers with an amazing, amazing initial premise or like a crazy plot twist. But yeah, twists and turns are more the merriest, I can admit. Yeah, well-rounded characters, moms who care about their kids and their families, and they'll do literally anything to hold it all together. All that good stuff. And I should put a plug in for my fellow editor at Joppy. You might be interested in this, megan. We've actually just started looking at some fantasy. So, in particular, maybe a romantic scene which would go down very well with my colleague Jasmine.

Speaker 2: 42:22

We didn't meet Jasmine at the conference right, we met your colleague Emma.

Speaker 3: 42:28

Yeah, Emma is our editorial director and she works across the board really. She has Punjabi titles and she has taken on and, I would say, completely revitalized our romance imprint Chocolate.

Speaker 1: 42:43

Good name for the imprint.

Speaker 3: 42:45

It's fun, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 42:46

Yeah, it is it's fun. So what are all the imprints that Joppy has?

Speaker 3: 42:56

for romance. And we've got Loom Books, which was one of the part of one of the earliest digital publishers in the UK who were really successful, and so they have a whole list of, I mean, anything and everything. They've got some really amazing nonfiction on there. They've got some fantasy. That's where it all sort of begun. We were looking at things like that. They've got some historical and some sagas, um, but we were sort of mining, you know, this list of books that readers haven't met yet. Uh, and the sound, all of these fun, fun new genres that we haven't necessarily worked with yet oh, that's exciting, but your bread and butter has always been mystery, thriller suspense.

Speaker 3: 43:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's my personal bread and butter.

Speaker 2: 43:44

All right.

Speaker 3: 43:46

Yeah, this is why we're friends.

Speaker 1: 43:50

So why don't you tell people where they can find out more about you and more about Jaffe?

Speaker 3: 43:57

Yeah, absolutely so. The Jaffe Books website has all kinds of stuff. It has all of our new books, all of our new releases, all of our new news. So we have all of our fun signing announcements. So if I get to sign a fabulous new author, you'll get to read about it on there. There's a blog, there's author buyers and then there's all of our editor buyers. Joffrey Books is also very big on Facebook, twitter, instagram and TikTok and I reluctantly agreed to get Twitter. I was once so excited about how well my author was doing that I made a Twitter account just so I could chat about it.

Speaker 1: 44:39

That's so fun. That's great, well, and we will have all those links in the show notes. This has been so fun, steph, catching up with you and all of that. I've really enjoyed it. So, listeners, if you are thinking about pitching, go check out Jaffe Books and our buddy Steph. Also, if you are enjoying the podcast, please consider hitting that little button below that says support the show. Just a few dollars a month can really help us to keep the show on the air, cover our editing and hosting costs. We really appreciate it. We would also appreciate a review, or hit those star buttons and a review if you're enjoying the show and share your favorite episode with a friend. Until next time, keep your stories rolling.